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2023-02-09 JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING In the Matter of the 2023-2024 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON TAXES Chair: Sen. Krueger View full transcript → Archive

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NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE HEARS HOCHUL BUDGET TAX PROPOSALS AMID ECONOMIC CONCERNS Albany — The New York State Legislature's joint fiscal committees heard testimony on the Governor's 2023-2024 Executive Budget tax proposals on Thursday, with Acting Tax Commissioner Amanda Hiller defending the administration's approach while lawmakers raised concerns about economic forecasting, child poverty, and enforcement of illegal cannabis businesses. Commissioner Hiller presented a budget built on an $8.7 billion state surplus and $20 billion in reserves accumulated since 2020, citing "continued strength in tax receipts." However, she acknowledged significant economic headwinds: the Division of Budget now projects U.S. real GDP growth of just 0.5 percent in 2023, with bonus income expected to decline 27 percent from its 2022 peak and wage growth slowing to 2.3 percent in fiscal year 2024. The budget maintains Governor Hochul's pledge not to increase income taxes while proposing a three-year extension of the elevated corporate tax rate, projected to generate $800 million in the first year, $1.2 billion in the second, and $880 million in the third. The administration also proposed various tax credits and property tax relief measures, including simplification of the senior citizen exemption and direct deposit delivery of STAR credits. Sen. Andrew Gounardes, chair of the Senate Committee on Revenue and Budget, pressed the commissioner on what he characterized as a "missed opportunity" on child poverty. New York ranks among the highest states for childhood poverty at 19 percent and is legally required to halve that rate by 2030. The budget makes no adjustments to the state child tax credit, which remains capped at $500 per child—far below the federal $2,000 credit. Gounardes requested cost analysis for recoupling the state credit to federal standards. Sen. Dean Murray criticized the budget's priorities, noting the state is willing to forgo $116 million in fiscal year 2024 and $222 million in fiscal year 2025 from a flavored tobacco ban while allocating zero initial funding for a new childcare tax credit (capped at $25 million in fiscal years 2025-2026). "We're giving away 116 million in revenue," Murray said. "Why couldn't we have kicked that in quicker?" Sen. Thomas O'Mara, ranking member on Finance, raised concerns about bracket creep from inflation and requested the administration explore indexing income tax brackets. He also pressed Commissioner Hiller on enforcement against illegal marijuana sticker shops operating as cash businesses, citing examples of businesses giving away cars and throwing cash from rooftops as incentives. The commissioner acknowledged the Tax Department lacks the authority it needs for robust cannabis enforcement but said discussions are ongoing to expand that authority. Assemblyman Kenneth Zebrowski, chair of the Corporations, Authorities and Commissions Committee, submitted a detailed list of questions about the MTA payroll mobility tax, requesting data on affected businesses, alternatives considered, and whether all businesses in the MTA district are "similarly situated," given that some counties west of the Hudson have no access to MTA services. The hearing was the fifth in a series of joint fiscal committee hearings on the Governor's proposed budget, conducted pursuant to the New York State Constitution and Legislative Law. NEW YORK — Acting Tax Commissioner Amanda Hiller defended Governor Hochul's 2023-2024 tax proposals before a joint legislative committee on Thursday, emphasizing the department's modernization efforts while facing sharp questioning from lawmakers skeptical of several key initiatives. Hiller acknowledged that the state's tax administration systems run on 40-year-old technology, hampering efforts to modernize service delivery for low-income families claiming tax credits. She noted that many families remain unbanked, preventing electronic direct deposit of refunds, and that the department currently cannot issue credits electronically throughout the year. Sen. Liz Krueger (D-Manhattan) pressed Hiller on the administration's proposal to extend a reduced property transfer tax rate for real estate investment trusts—$1 per $500 compared to the standard $2 per $500 rate—in place since 1999. Krueger questioned why the state would subsidize REITs amid national concerns about their acquisition of housing stock. Hiller defended the rate as tied to ownership transactions and said the proposal maintains the status quo. Krueger requested data on foregone revenue if REITs paid standard rates. Krueger also expressed concern about a proposal granting the Tax Department appellate rights over Tax Appeals Tribunal decisions, calling it a "slippery slope." Hiller countered that 32 states allow such appeals and cited model legislation supporting the practice. Sen. Gounardes (D-Brooklyn) challenged the adequacy of New York's child tax credit, which excludes children under five and those with undocumented immigrant parents, with a maximum benefit of just $500. He questioned whether the department could issue credits electronically year-round and requested data on a proposed childcare credit before statewide expansion. Hiller said the department lacks such data, as tax returns are still being processed. On cannabis taxation, Assemblyman Manktelow noted the budget contains no revenue line for cannabis sales, though Hiller said the financial plan anticipates such revenue. She acknowledged the department lacks current authority to tax illegal cannabis sales but said it could pursue enforcement similar to tobacco enforcement if granted statutory authority. Hiller reported preliminary data showing an uptick in millionaire outmigration following the 2021-2022 tax increases on high earners, but cautioned that one year does not establish a trend and that tax may not be the primary driver of relocation decisions. Assemblyman Mamdani challenged Hiller's assertion that New York's 7.25 percent corporate tax rate keeps the state competitive, noting New Jersey's rate is 11.5 percent. He cited a proposal to raise rates that would generate $9 billion in revenue. Hiller declined to comment on tax policy preferences, reiterating her role is to administer legislative choices. Assemblywoman Dickens raised concerns about economic headwinds—declining GDP, small business closures, and cross-border shopping losses of $1 billion annually—questioning whether revenue projections in the budget are realistic given ongoing economic uncertainty. NEW YORK — Three progressive policy organizations testified before the state Legislature's joint budget committee on Tuesday that New York should significantly raise taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations, citing strong public support and robust recent tax revenue performance. Dr. Emily Eisner, an economist, told the Finance Committee that 75-85% of New Yorkers support higher taxes on the wealthy. Charles Khan of the Center for Popular Democracy pointed to concrete fiscal results: since New York raised income taxes on those earning over $5 million in 2021, state tax receipts have beaten estimates every quarter, with last year's receipts running 37% above projections—"billions and billions of dollars," Khan said. Nathan Gusdorf of the Fiscal Policy Institute recommended multiple revenue options, including a state surtax on long-term capital gains, conforming to federal tax provisions on multinational profit shifting, and reducing pass-through entity tax rebates. He projected that restoring a $500,000 income tax bracket could generate $500 million in new revenue. The testimony drew pointed questions from legislators. Sen. Liz Krueger raised concerns about untapped revenue sources, including enforcement against out-of-state tax cheaters, gig economy workers like Uber and Lyft drivers, and companies profiting from personal data sales. "There's a whole lot of money there on the table I believe we should be getting," Krueger said. Sen. Patty Murray challenged the panelists' claims about migration, citing a Yahoo News article showing wealthy earners moving to Florida and Texas, and raising concerns about lost philanthropic donations. Eisner countered that economic research shows tax migration accounts for only 0.75% of high earners, with housing costs—not taxes—driving most relocations. The hearing was the fifth in the Legislature's 2023-2024 budget review process.

Topic Summary

The joint fiscal committees of the New York State Legislature held a hearing on the Governor's proposed 2023-2024 Executive Budget with focus on tax policy. Acting Tax Commissioner Amanda Hiller presented the administration's tax proposals, including extensions of corporate tax rates, property tax relief measures, and various tax credits. Legislators questioned the budget's approach to revenue generation, economic forecasting, and specific tax policies including the MTA payroll mobility tax, flavored tobacco ban, and child tax credits.

Testimony (5)

Amanda Hiller agency_official informational
Acting Commissioner and General Counsel, New York State Department of Taxation and Finance
Acting Commissioner Hiller presented the Governor's 2023-2024 Executive Budget tax proposals, emphasizing an $8.7 billion state surplus and $20 billion in reserves built since fiscal year 2020. She outlined economic headwinds including projected mild national recession in early 2023, declining bonus income (27% decline from FY22 peak), and slower wage growth (2.4% through FY23, 2.3% in FY24). The budget maintains no income tax increases while proposing targeted investments in housing, crime prevention, energy affordability, and MTA funding. She highlighted tax modernization efforts, IT infrastructure upgrades, and initiatives to improve taxpayer experience including digital document uploads and direct deposit STAR credits.
Acting Commissioner Amanda Hiller agency_official informational
New York Department of Taxation and Finance
Hiller provided comprehensive testimony on the Governor's tax proposals, emphasizing the department's IT modernization efforts to improve taxpayer compliance and service delivery. She discussed challenges in administering low-income tax credits, the complexity of REIT tax structures, and the department's enforcement capabilities regarding illegal cannabis sales. She defended the proposal to grant the Tax Department appellate rights over Tax Appeals Tribunal decisions, noting that 32 states have similar provisions.
Emily Eisner academic supportive
Ph.D. Economist, University of California at Berkeley
Dr. Eisner argued that 75-85% of New Yorkers support higher taxes on the wealthy. She cited New York's status as the 10th richest country equivalent globally and noted income inequality has grown 10-30% since 2010 in the state's top 10 counties. She contended that raising taxes on top earners and corporations would strengthen the tax base by improving public amenities like the MTA and childcare.
Charles Khan advocate supportive
Campaign Coordinator, Center for Popular Democracy
Khan emphasized that tax increases on wealthy New Yorkers are popular (8 out of 10 support) and have proven fiscally successful. He noted that since the 2021 income tax increase on those earning over $5 million, New York State tax receipts have beaten estimates every quarter, with last year's receipts 37% above estimates. He criticized the Governor's budget for raising MTA fares, tuition, and payroll taxes on working-class New Yorkers instead of raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations.
Nathan Gusdorf academic supportive
Executive Director, Fiscal Policy Institute
Gusdorf provided technical tax policy analysis, arguing that the personal income tax remains the best revenue source for social spending. He noted that FPI's analysis found housing and rental cost savings (averaging $18,000 for mortgages and $5,000 for renters) were about 15 times greater than tax savings for those leaving the state. He proposed several revenue options including a state surtax on long-term capital gains, conforming to federal GILTI provisions, reducing pass-through entity tax rebates, and wealth taxation on unrealized capital gains.

Senator Engagement (11)

Senator Engagement Stance Focus Areas Summary
Sen. Gounardes skeptical Impact of personal and corporate income tax rate changes Rationale for three-year corporate tax rate extension Economic forecasting and budget projections Child poverty reduction and child tax credits State's ranking on childhood poverty rates Sen. Gounardes questioned the administration's economic forecasting approach, expressing concern that projecting shortfalls may be self-limiting the Legislature's policy choices. He pressed Commissioner Hiller on the lack of child tax credit increases despite New York's persistently high childhood poverty rate (19%) and the state's legal obligation to halve childhood poverty by 2030. He noted the existing state child tax credit is capped at $500 per child versus the federal $2,000 and requested cost analysis for recoupling to federal standards.
Sen. Gounardes opposed Child tax credit limitations Electronic issuance of credits and refunds Childcare tax credit data and implementation Sen. Gounardes challenged the adequacy of New York's child tax credit, noting it excludes children age zero to four and children of undocumented immigrants, and has a low $500 cap. He questioned whether the department can issue credits electronically year-round and requested data on the NYC childcare credit before statewide expansion.
Sen. Gounardes supportive Tax revenue volatility and inequality Personal income tax progressivity Budget investment priorities Gounardes asked substantive questions about tax revenue stability, the potential revenue from increased progressivity in personal income tax rates, and where the Legislature should prioritize investments. His questions suggested openness to progressive tax increases.
Sen. Krueger neutral Committee chair role Introduction of committee members Procedural management As chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. Krueger managed the hearing procedurally, introduced committee members, and facilitated the question-and-answer sessions. She did not pose substantive questions during the hearing.
Sen. Krueger skeptical SCRIE/DRIE property tax exemptions for elderly and disabled REIT tax rate reductions and revenue impact Tax Appeals Tribunal appellate authority for the department Illegal cannabis enforcement and alternative tools Disabled exemptions simplification Sen. Krueger demonstrated strong engagement with detailed, probing questions. She was supportive of SCRIE modernization but skeptical of REIT tax breaks, questioning their necessity and requesting revenue data. She expressed concern about granting the Tax Department appellate rights over the tribunal, calling it a 'slippery slope,' and offered practical alternatives for cannabis enforcement.
Sen. Krueger supportive Tax enforcement against out-of-state corporations and wealthy individuals Gig economy taxation (Uber, Lyft) Data privacy and personal data sales taxation Comprehensive tax system reform Krueger raised pointed questions about untapped tax revenue sources, including enforcement against tax cheaters, gig economy workers, and companies that profit from personal data. She advocated for a comprehensive reevaluation of what New York fails to tax, suggesting frustration with the current system's gaps.
Sen. Murray opposed Flavored tobacco ban revenue loss Childcare tax credit allocation Inconsistent tax policy priorities Suffolk County ransomware attack impacts on STAR rebates Sen. Murray expressed frustration with the budget's priorities, arguing that the state is willing to lose $116 million in FY24 and $222 million in FY25 from the flavored tobacco ban while allocating zero funding initially for childcare tax credits (capped at $25 million in FY25-26). He characterized the tobacco ban as 'Nanny State' policy and questioned the inconsistency in tax policy priorities. He also inquired about potential impacts from Suffolk County's ransomware attack on STAR rebates.
Sen. Murray skeptical Wealthy taxpayer migration Philanthropic contributions from wealthy individuals Out-of-state migration data Murray challenged the panelists' claims about migration patterns, citing a Yahoo News/Moneywise article showing wealthy earners moving to Florida and Texas. She raised concerns about losing philanthropic donations when wealthy individuals leave the state, suggesting skepticism about raising taxes on the wealthy.
Sen. O'Mara skeptical Income tax bracket indexing for inflation Bracket creep issues Marijuana sticker shops and tax enforcement Cannabis tax compliance Sen. O'Mara, ranking member on Finance, raised concerns about bracket creep resulting from inflation and requested the administration explore indexing income tax brackets. He also pressed the commissioner on enforcement against illegal marijuana sticker shops operating as cash businesses, citing specific examples of businesses giving away cars and cash as incentives. He questioned why the Tax Department cannot enforce sales tax collection on these operations.
Sen. O'Mara opposed Illegal cannabis enforcement Cash tracking from illegal cannabis raids Sen. O'Mara raised concerns about illegal cannabis operations, noting that raids are generating over $100,000 per week in untaxed sales. He advocated for stronger enforcement tools and cash tracking mechanisms.
Sen. Weinstein neutral Hearing management and procedural questions Ensuring testimony stays on track As chair, Weinstein managed the hearing procedurally, limiting testimony time and directing questions from legislators. She did not express a substantive position on tax policy.