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2024-02-14 JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING In the Matter of the 2024-2025 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON TAXES Chair: Sen. Gounardes View full transcript → Archive

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NEW YORK STATE'S TAX COMMISSIONER WARNED LAWMAKERS WEDNESDAY THAT THE STATE'S BUDGET FACES MOUNTING RISKS FROM OVER-RELIANCE ON A TINY SLIVER OF WEALTHY TAXPAYERS, EVEN AS THE GOVERNOR'S 2024-2025 BUDGET PROPOSES NO NEW TAX INCREASES. Acting Tax Commissioner Amanda Hiller testified before the Senate Finance Committee and Assembly Ways and Means Committee that the top 2 percent of earners now pay approximately 50 percent of New York's income tax revenue—a concentration that creates dangerous volatility. She cited a $7 billion swing in income tax revenue in tax year 2022 alone, driven by declining economic fortunes of high-income taxpayers. "We have an incredibly progressive tax system, but we don't have smooth progressivity across the tax brackets," Hiller said, warning that further reliance on wealthy taxpayers to fund recurring spending commitments poses significant budget risks. Several Republican senators seized on Hiller's testimony to challenge Democratic proposals for higher taxes on the wealthy. Sen. Bill Weber questioned whether the 2021 tax increase on top earners was a mistake, given continued outmigration of residents. Sen. George Borrello argued the problem is not that the rich aren't paying their fair share, but that New York is "chasing the rich out of New York State." Hiller acknowledged the state has seen outmigration of high-income New Yorkers, particularly to Florida and other southern states, though she cautioned that multiple factors drive relocation decisions. The Governor's budget proposal includes two major tax changes: shifting sales tax collection responsibility for short-term vacation rentals from individual hosts to internet platforms, and replacing the complex potency-based cannabis tax with a simpler price-based tax. Hiller said these changes will "streamline and simplify tax compliance." The Tax Department reported processing 27 million tax filings last year, closing 750,000 audit cases, and collecting $147 billion in tax revenues. The department is also piloting a Direct File program allowing New Yorkers to file state taxes for free, with an estimated 10 percent of income tax payers eligible when the program expands later this spring. Assemblywoman Jaime Williams, chair of the Real Property Tax Committee, pressed Hiller on three major real property tax proposals, including one to return surplus funds from tax foreclosure sales to former homeowners—a change required by a recent Supreme Court decision. Hiller acknowledged the change will create financial challenges for local governments that have historically retained those surplus funds. Sen. John Liu questioned the Executive's claim that extending a Dodd-Frank sales tax exemption for financial services has no fiscal impact, arguing the state is clearly losing revenue by continuing the exemption. Hiller acknowledged the revenue loss but said it cannot be quantified because those transactions were not taxable before the Dodd-Frank requirement to spin out back-office functions. Assemblyman Edward Ra raised concerns about enforcement gaps for flavored vape products and questioned whether New York's "convenience rules"—which treat remote work days as New York workdays for tax purposes—could be vulnerable to constitutional challenge as neighboring states encourage residents to challenge them. Hiller acknowledged the issue "will ultimately be resolved in our Court of Appeals or in the Supreme Court" and said the state may need to reconsider its approach to remote work taxation. NEW YORK — A joint legislative hearing on the 2024-2025 executive budget revealed sharp disagreement over tax policy effectiveness and millionaire migration patterns, with lawmakers challenging the Department of Taxation and Finance on everything from the film tax credit's dismal returns to the slow rollout of legal cannabis sales. DTF Acting Commissioner Hiller faced pointed questions from Sen. Thomas Murray, who cited a 359-page study showing the film tax credit returns just 31 cents on the dollar—prompting him to ask why the Legislature increased the credit from $520 million to $700 million last year. "Wouldn't it be wise maybe to stop this program, get that revenue in and maybe recoup some of that money for, say, schools?" Murray asked. Hiller acknowledged the study's findings but deferred the policy decision to lawmakers. The hearing was dominated by debate over whether New York's high tax rates are driving away wealthy residents. Assemblyman Mamdani presented data showing millionaire outmigration rates declined after the 2021 tax increase, attributing earlier departures to the COVID-19 pandemic. But Hiller countered that more recent data shows increased migration among those most affected by the tax increases, though she acknowledged the complexity of isolating tax policy from other factors. Sen. Hoylman-Sigal challenged the department's data collection methods, suggesting they systematically survey departing taxpayers. He cited Fiscal Policy Institute data showing millionaires pay 44 percent of state income tax while earning 35 percent of personal income, suggesting the burden is proportionate. Hiller noted New York has gained 17,500 millionaires over four years, though she clarified these are mostly existing residents whose incomes crossed the million-dollar threshold, not in-migration. Sen. O'Mara criticized the cannabis program as "embarrassing," noting slow legal market rollout and persistent illegal sticker shops in his district. He also questioned the shift from THC-level to price-based taxation, arguing the market should be established first. Hiller defended the change as a simplification, noting testing is expensive and unreliable. Sen. Gounardes focused on the net gain in millionaire filers and questioned the public policy rationale for subsidizing charitable donations of multimillionaires, asking why libraries and parks should depend on tax deductions rather than full public funding. Hiller deferred to lawmakers on policy rationale but noted wealthy donors make the largest contributions to nonprofits. The hearing also covered proposed tax credits for commercial security, conversion of commercial property to affordable housing, and a Direct File pilot program that Gounardes praised as "the future of tax collection and administration." Hiller said the pilot would initially be limited to simple returns with standard deductions and certain credits, following IRS parameters. The Finance Committee hearing underscored persistent tensions between revenue needs, tax competitiveness, and the state's heavy reliance on high-income earners—a concentration Hiller acknowledged creates budget volatility when stock market performance fluctuates. NEW YORK — Advocates for progressive taxation dominated a joint legislative hearing on the 2024-2025 executive budget's tax provisions Wednesday, presenting data and arguments that the state has substantial fiscal capacity to raise taxes on high earners and corporations without triggering mass outmigration. The Fiscal Policy Institute presented a statistical study finding that New York's top 1 percent of income earners move out of state at roughly one-fourth the rate of other income groups, and that tax increases enacted in 2017 and 2021 did not significantly alter migration patterns. FPI Executive Director Nathan Gusdorf noted that the state's top income tax rate of 10.9 percent applies only to those earning over $25 million annually, compared to New Jersey's 10.8 percent rate and California's 13.3 percent rate, both of which apply to earners over $1 million. "There's considerable room to raise income tax rates at the top in particular, and to repair certain peculiarities of our progressivity," Gusdorf testified. Multiple advocacy organizations — New York Communities for Change, Invest in Our New York, Citizen Action of New York, and the Strong Economy for All Coalition — urged lawmakers to pass the five-bill Invest in Our New York package, which would increase taxes on the state's wealthiest residents and most profitable corporations. They cited polling showing two-thirds of New Yorkers support such increases regardless of political affiliation. Michael Kink of the Strong Economy for All Coalition noted that the state currently holds approximately $30 billion in reserves — $20 billion in reserve funds plus $10 billion in unspent money — while facing an affordability crisis. He cited Comptroller data showing that the 2021 tax increases raised $10 billion more than predicted. Advocates emphasized that working-class and low-income New Yorkers, not high earners, are most likely to leave the state due to housing costs and affordability pressures. Carolyn Martinez-Class of the Invest in Our New York Campaign cited the Comptroller's December 2023 report identifying people earning less than $500,000 annually as most likely to leave. The hearing also addressed specific budget concerns. Rebecca Garrard of Citizen Action of New York cited 740,000 New Yorkers carrying medical debt in collections and opposed proposed cuts to Medicaid and Foundation Aid. Advocates called for investments in housing, including a proposed Social Housing Development Authority, and for meeting climate mandates under the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act. Warren Wheeler of the New York State Assessors Association supported Part M of the budget clarifying telecommunications assessment ceilings and backed the Condo Bill (A1292/S04065) as a local option measure to address what he characterized as a loophole in how condominiums and cooperatives are taxed compared to single-family properties. The hearing concluded with limited senator engagement, with Chairwoman Weinstein noting no further questions from members after the panel testimony.

Topic Summary

The Senate Finance Committee and Assembly Ways and Means Committee held a joint hearing on Governor Hochul's 2024-2025 Executive Budget tax proposals. Acting Tax Commissioner Amanda Hiller testified on revenue challenges, including weaker personal and business income tax receipts, and outlined key proposals including sales tax compliance for short-term vacation rentals, cannabis tax reform, and property tax changes. Senators and Assembly members questioned the commissioner on tax policy, outmigration of high-income earners, and tax administration.

Testimony (8)

Amanda Hiller agency_official informational
Acting Commissioner and General Counsel, New York State Department of Taxation and Finance
Acting Commissioner Hiller provided an overview of the Executive Budget's tax proposals and the Tax Department's operations. She highlighted that New York's economic recovery lags the national recovery, with tax receipts remaining below 2023 levels due to weaker personal and business income tax receipts. She outlined two major proposals: shifting sales tax collection responsibility for short-term vacation rentals from individual hosts to internet platforms, and replacing the complex potency-based cannabis tax with a simpler price-based tax. She also discussed the Tax Department's modernization efforts, STAR property tax relief administration, and a pilot Direct File program for state tax returns.
DTF Acting Commissioner Hiller agency_official informational
New York Department of Taxation and Finance
Commissioner Hiller provided testimony on tax policy matters including migration patterns, tax incentive effectiveness, cannabis taxation changes, and proposed credits. She emphasized the complexity of attributing migration to specific tax policies, noting COVID pandemic effects clouded data. She discussed the film tax credit study showing 31 cents return on dollar, cannabis tax structure changes, and various proposed tax incentives.
Warren Wheeler industry supportive
New York State Assessors Association, Executive Director
Wheeler expressed support for Part M of the budget clarifying telecommunications assessment ceiling and requested amendments requiring companies to provide inventory information. He also supported the Condo Bill (A1292/S04065) as a local option measure, arguing that current treatment of condominiums and cooperatives creates a loophole that has been exploited for non-affordable housing rather than its original intended purpose.
Nathan Gusdorf academic supportive
Fiscal Policy Institute, Executive Director
Gusdorf presented findings from FPI's statistical study of taxpayer migration, concluding that high earners move out of New York at lower rates than other income groups and that tax increases in 2017 and 2021 did not significantly change migration behavior. He argued the state has room to raise income tax rates, particularly at the top end, and proposed alternative revenue sources including higher capital gains taxes and a business entity profits tax.
James Inniss advocate supportive
New York Communities for Change, Representative
Inniss testified on behalf of the organization's 20,000 members in New York City and Long Island, emphasizing the urgency of climate and housing crises. He argued that New York must cut climate-heating pollution by 40 percent within six years and address the housing emergency, supporting the Invest in Our New York tax package. He cited that 73 percent of New Yorkers support raising taxes on the rich.
Carolyn Martinez-Class advocate supportive
Invest in Our New York Campaign, Campaign Manager
Martinez-Class presented the Invest in Our New York Campaign's two-pronged approach: advocating for critical investments in housing, infrastructure, and healthcare while proposing they be funded through increased taxes on millionaires, billionaires, and wealthy corporations. She countered characterizations of the proposals as 'crazy,' noting two-thirds of New Yorkers support them regardless of political affiliation. She emphasized that working-class people, not high earners, are most likely to leave the state.
Rebecca Garrard advocate supportive
Citizen Action of New York, Representative
Garrard framed the budget as a moral document reflecting state priorities and argued for prioritizing struggling low- and moderate-income families over wealthy New Yorkers. She opposed proposed cuts to Medicaid and Foundation Aid, and advocated for specific investments including increased hospital financial assistance, the Housing Access Voucher Program, a Social Housing Development Authority, tenant protections, and funding for climate mandates.
Michael Kink advocate supportive
Strong Economy for All Coalition, Executive Director
Kink testified on behalf of a coalition of labor unions and community groups, supporting the five-bill Invest in Our New York package to tax high incomes, profitable corporations, and extreme wealth. He cited that the 2021 tax increases raised $10 billion more than predicted and noted the state has $30 billion in reserves. He argued that capital gains are undertaxed and proposed a capital gains tax modeled on Washington and Minnesota.

Senator Engagement (12)

Senator Engagement Stance Focus Areas Summary
Sen. Borrello skeptical Tax revenue projections versus actual collections Outmigration of high-income earners Progressive tax burden distribution Revenue volatility and budget planning Sen. Borrello challenged the narrative that wealthy taxpayers aren't paying their fair share, arguing instead that New York is chasing wealthy residents away. He questioned the accuracy of revenue projections and highlighted the volatility created by dependence on a small number of high-income taxpayers.
Sen. Gounardes neutral Committee management and hearing procedures Sen. Gounardes, as chair of the Senate Committee on Budget and Revenue, managed the hearing proceedings and introduced Senate members. He did not ask substantive questions during the testimony.
Sen. Gounardes supportive millionaire migration and net gains tax burden on wealthy taxpayers financial plan stability charitable deduction limitations Direct File pilot program Sen. Gounardes focused on the net increase of 15,000 millionaire filers despite some outmigration, arguing this supports the current tax structure. He questioned the public policy rationale for subsidizing charitable donations of multimillionaires and expressed enthusiasm for the Direct File pilot, asking about expansion to pre-filled returns.
Sen. Hoylman-Sigal neutral Sen. Hoylman-Sigal was noted as joining the hearing but did not ask questions in the transcript.
Sen. Hoylman-Sigal skeptical outmigration data collection methods tax burden on millionaires relationship between budget surplus and tax policy Sen. Hoylman-Sigal questioned whether the department systematically surveys departing taxpayers and suggested they should. He cited the Fiscal Policy Institute data showing millionaires pay 44 percent of income tax while earning 35 percent of income, suggesting proportionality, and noted the budget surplus contradicts arguments that taxes are pushing out high earners.
Sen. Liu skeptical Dodd-Frank sales tax exemption extension Revenue loss from tax exemptions Financial impact of extending exemptions Sen. Liu pressed Commissioner Hiller on the fiscal impact of extending the Dodd-Frank sales tax exemption for another three years, questioning why the Executive claims no fiscal impact when revenue is being foregone. He expressed skepticism about continuing exemptions for large Wall Street companies.
Sen. Murray neutral Sen. Murray was noted as joining the hearing but did not ask questions in the transcript.
Sen. Murray opposed film tax credit effectiveness return on investment for tax incentives budget priorities Sen. Murray expressed strong skepticism about the film tax credit, citing the PFM Group study showing 31 cents return on dollar. He questioned why the Legislature increased the credit from $520 million to $700 million given poor returns, and suggested the revenue could be redirected to schools or programs like Healthy Meals for All.
Sen. O'Mara neutral Sen. O'Mara, the ranker on the Finance Committee, was present but did not ask questions during the testimony period covered in the transcript.
Sen. O'Mara skeptical cannabis tax receipts and projections illegal cannabis market enforcement THC-based vs. price-based cannabis taxation manufacturer tax relief Sen. O'Mara questioned cannabis tax performance, calling the program 'embarrassing' due to slow legal market rollout and persistent illegal sticker shops. He challenged the shift from THC-level to price-based taxation, arguing the market should be established first. He also advocated for extending manufacturer tax relief to pass-through entities, noting they comprise 75 percent of manufacturing entities.
Sen. Weber skeptical Outmigration of residents and wealthy taxpayers 2021 tax rate increases and their effects Tax policy and economic competitiveness Department customer service and staffing Sen. Weber questioned whether the 2021 tax increase on wealthy New Yorkers was a mistake given continued outmigration, and expressed concern about further tax increases driving more residents away. He also raised concerns about the Tax Department's customer service capabilities and remote work arrangements.
Sen. Weinstein neutral Hearing administration Testimony management Chairwoman Weinstein managed the hearing, introduced testifiers, and noted the hearing concluded with no further questions from senators, suggesting the panel testimony was received without significant senator interrogation.

Referenced Bills